Comments on: Flex finally appeals to engineers, but at Flash’s expense? http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/ excerpts from the mind of a platform evangelist Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:24:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Tom Ortega http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3820 Tom Ortega Fri, 20 Apr 2007 06:28:39 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3820 Bravo to David Mendels post. I think separation of church and state is good. The Flash Authoring environment is powerful, I know this. I used it back in the day to build some early RIAs. However, let's face it. Flex code is 1000 times more easier to maintain that crazy ActionScript code tied to MovieClips and frames of MovieClips. Flash Authoring is awesome for it's richness and for those times that a timeline is necessary. However, when you have 50 some layers with movieClips nested in MovieClips and all of it tied to 1 frame on the timeline...you know something is whacky. I'm thrilled that Flex Builder can continue to grow as the tool of choice for coders and that Flash Authoring can now put most of it's time and energy into becoming the best design tool on the planet. With both of them truly speaking the same language and recognizing each others components and output, the RIA space is about to get a whole lot sweeter. Bravo to Adobe for making the hard decision and supporting both developers & designers with two stellar products, rather than continuing to try to mix them both into one mediocre tool. Bravo to David Mendels post. I think separation of church and state is good. The Flash Authoring environment is powerful, I know this. I used it back in the day to build some early RIAs. However, let’s face it. Flex code is 1000 times more easier to maintain that crazy ActionScript code tied to MovieClips and frames of MovieClips. Flash Authoring is awesome for it’s richness and for those times that a timeline is necessary. However, when you have 50 some layers with movieClips nested in MovieClips and all of it tied to 1 frame on the timeline…you know something is whacky.

I’m thrilled that Flex Builder can continue to grow as the tool of choice for coders and that Flash Authoring can now put most of it’s time and energy into becoming the best design tool on the planet. With both of them truly speaking the same language and recognizing each others components and output, the RIA space is about to get a whole lot sweeter.

Bravo to Adobe for making the hard decision and supporting both developers & designers with two stellar products, rather than continuing to try to mix them both into one mediocre tool.

]]> By: chuckstar22 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3784 chuckstar22 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:40:17 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3784 David, So exciting to hear the Flash/Flex integration kit is finally coming out and I can't wait to use it. I can tell you right now it's probably going to be REALLY valuable in my next project. Please tell me, how does one get a 'sneak preview' of lab releases like the folks you linked to above? David, So exciting to hear the Flash/Flex integration kit is finally coming out and I can’t wait to use it. I can tell you right now it’s probably going to be REALLY valuable in my next project.

Please tell me, how does one get a ‘sneak preview’ of lab releases like the folks you linked to above?

]]> By: David Mendels http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3779 David Mendels Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:39:36 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3779 Hi Chuck, I couldn't disagree more. Flash Professional was getting bogged down in features like the forms stuff we did in MX 2004 that weren't quite right for most developers and yet were taking most of our focus off of great design and animation features. By having Flex in the stable, we not only were able to really focus on getting a product right for code centric developers, I think we also freed up the Flash authoring team to do a lot of the right things to make the tool more expressive and powerfull for designers. (Of course, there is a blurry line between "designers" and "developers"). Now, we are working on bringing teams using both products together and it will be super powerfull for both sides--all the creative power of Flash authoring and all of the developer productivity, maintainability and power for Flex coming together to create the best experiences. Someone sneaked next weeks Labs release here: http://blog.everythingflex.com/2007/04/18/flex-component-kit-for-flash-cs3-wow/ and http://lordbron.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/flash-exodus-is-over/ and http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2007/04/18/flex-vs-flash/ We are investing heavily in both Flex and Flash authoring and the best work in the world will be done by teams that use both. -David Adone Hi Chuck,

I couldn’t disagree more. Flash Professional was getting bogged down in features like the forms stuff we did in MX 2004 that weren’t quite right for most developers and yet were taking most of our focus off of great design and animation features. By having Flex in the stable, we not only were able to really focus on getting a product right for code centric developers, I think we also freed up the Flash authoring team to do a lot of the right things to make the tool more expressive and powerfull for designers. (Of course, there is a blurry line between “designers” and “developers”). Now, we are working on bringing teams using both products together and it will be super powerfull for both sides–all the creative power of Flash authoring and all of the developer productivity, maintainability and power for Flex coming together to create the best experiences. Someone sneaked next weeks Labs release here:

http://blog.everythingflex.com/2007/04/18/flex-component-kit-for-flash-cs3-wow/

and

http://lordbron.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/flash-exodus-is-over/

and

http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2007/04/18/flex-vs-flash/

We are investing heavily in both Flex and Flash authoring and the best work in the world will be done by teams that use both.

-David
Adone

]]> By: chuckstar22 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3755 chuckstar22 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:02:12 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3755 Thanks for the great feedback. Something you said, Scott, made me think that I may have been remiss in my post by not mentioning it. The term "Flash Designer" is growing in popularity, seemingly replacing the concept of a 'Flash Developer' and further creating this Flex is for developers, Flash is for designers segregation. I'm hearing the term 'Flash Developer' much less these days. Thanks for the great feedback. Something you said, Scott, made me think that I may have been remiss in my post by not mentioning it. The term “Flash Designer” is growing in popularity, seemingly replacing the concept of a ‘Flash Developer’ and further creating this Flex is for developers, Flash is for designers segregation. I’m hearing the term ‘Flash Developer’ much less these days.

]]> By: Scott Morgan http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3754 Scott Morgan Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:46:49 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3754 There will always be a need for both. In a world of RIAs and HCRIE (Highly Creative Rich Internet Experiences (I just created the worlds worst accronym)) both Flex and Flash can live, and both types of developers can live. Sure there will be some overlap, they both use actionscript. Flash developers will need to know about the timeline, how to use it to their advantage, worry more about animation optimization, and dynamic animation effects. Where as Flex developers (not saying never) will not have to worry about this. Flash developers will be creating more creative interfaces whereas Flex developers will be creatively be working with data and components. Sure some will be great in both arenas. I don't think you are going to see a C++ developer become a Flash developer anytime soon. It's like those job postings looking for an expert C++ developer who is an amazing designer, with top notch photoshop, illustrator, after effects, and quark express experience, those type of super humans are only in the movies. Myself, I like both worlds. I'm a bit partial to the Flash world because that is what I have been doing for the last hundred (give or take a few decades) or so years. I love the creative possibilities. At the same time I like the power of application development within Flex and now Apollo. With Flash 9 now available I think we are going to start to see some good hybrids. Very exciting times indeed. Who knows if any of this made sense. Good posting none the less :) There will always be a need for both. In a world of RIAs and HCRIE (Highly Creative Rich Internet Experiences (I just created the worlds worst accronym)) both Flex and Flash can live, and both types of developers can live. Sure there will be some overlap, they both use actionscript. Flash developers will need to know about the timeline, how to use it to their advantage, worry more about animation optimization, and dynamic animation effects. Where as Flex developers (not saying never) will not have to worry about this. Flash developers will be creating more creative interfaces whereas Flex developers will be creatively be working with data and components. Sure some will be great in both arenas. I don’t think you are going to see a C++ developer become a Flash developer anytime soon. It’s like those job postings looking for an expert C++ developer who is an amazing designer, with top notch photoshop, illustrator, after effects, and quark express experience, those type of super humans are only in the movies.

Myself, I like both worlds. I’m a bit partial to the Flash world because that is what I have been doing for the last hundred (give or take a few decades) or so years. I love the creative possibilities. At the same time I like the power of application development within Flex and now Apollo. With Flash 9 now available I think we are going to start to see some good hybrids. Very exciting times indeed.

Who knows if any of this made sense. Good posting none the less :)

]]> By: Keith Peters http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3746 Keith Peters Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:24:51 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3746 Another insightful post, Chuck. Try as I might, I have still not gotten very excited about Flex. It's wonderful for what it can do, but the kind of things I WANT to do are not necessarily the things it is made for. Another insightful post, Chuck.
Try as I might, I have still not gotten very excited about Flex. It’s wonderful for what it can do, but the kind of things I WANT to do are not necessarily the things it is made for.

]]> By: chuckstar22 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3745 chuckstar22 Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:08:32 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3745 Think of it as IBM-compatible vs. PC. True at present time, but the labeling of "Flash Authoring" had not been invented when Flex was initially rolled out, and the notion of casting Flash into its own category was only beginning when Flex 2 came out. Think of it as IBM-compatible vs. PC. True at present time, but the labeling of “Flash Authoring” had not been invented when Flex was initially rolled out, and the notion of casting Flash into its own category was only beginning when Flex 2 came out.

]]> By: Josh Tynjala http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/technology/flex-finally-appeals-to-engineers-but-at-flashs-expense/comment-page-1/#comment-3741 Josh Tynjala Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:07:04 +0000 http://www.chuckstar.com/blog/?p=46#comment-3741 "Flash Authoring" is more accurate terminology to use considering that Flex is Flash. :) “Flash Authoring” is more accurate terminology to use considering that Flex is Flash. :)

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